THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW (1987) - Page 1

THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW
(air date: December 21, 1987) 

Barry Manilow



Oprah Winfrey: When my guest today was in Chicago about a month back to make an appearance for his newly released book, his fans literally camped outside the bookstore the night before, waiting for his arrival. He has won a Grammy, an Emmy and a Tony award, and he has had a string of 25 consecutive Top 40 hits - 25, count them, 25.

He has just kicked off his first concert tour in two years; written this book, it's called "Sweet Life - Adventures on the Way to Paradise"; he has a new album out, called "Swing Street."

He's a kid from the neighborhood who made it big, really big. From Brooklyn, New York, welcome Barry Manilow!

(Barry sings "Brooklyn Blues")

Winfrey: You don't have to applaud, they're applauding for you, they're applauding for you! So I am delighted to have as my special guest Barry Manilow. I was asking you, said to you in the green room, what a beautiful sweater, I love this sweater, the tuxedo sweater. And I said isn't it wonderful to be, you know, to be able to afford all this. And I was saying to the audience, now I know why, because in this audience - raise your hand, those of you who have all bought Barry Manilow's new book, "Sweet Life."

Okay. Now, of these people who've bought the book - keep your hands high, so Jimmy can get a shot, okay - a lot of these people don't have one book, they have two books. They have one book that's been signed, and another book just for reading. And so now I know how you got the sweater.

Barry: I just got my friends like that. I got the sweater from hard work.

Winfrey: Well, just spending a few moments with this audience, and I've spent a lot of time with a lot of audiences, I have never seen the kind of reaction from fans.

Barry: Really?

Winfrey: Never, I'm telling you, never. And I don't lie.

Barry: Yeah!

Winfrey: This kind of reaction from fans, it's like... it's more, it's like a love affair, it's like you're their brother, their cousin, their lover, their wish-they-could-be their lover. You know, it's all of that. Yeah, and how does that make you feel?

Barry: It makes me feel great. I mean, you know, everybody needs support, and I feel like they really are behind me. I'm behind them. I mean, it's a mutual love affair, you know. I think the same about them that they think about me.

Winfrey: Really?

Barry: Yeah.

Winfrey: You were saying to the audience that you've grown... you know these people.

Barry: We've all grown up together, I'm telling you. A lot of these people I recognize and a lot of the people that I get letters from I've gotten letters from 197... - whenever I started, back in 1973/4, you know. I mean, these people have been with me all along. I must be doing something, you know, that they're really enjoying, because they just are... they keep supporting everything I do.

Winfrey: Yeah. I'm going to talk to them later about what it is that makes them so different as fans, but you've written this book, "Sweet Life." You know, what amazed me, because I read a lot of books when people come on the show, is that it is so honest, it is so honest. I never expected somebody in your position to be that honest.

Barry: Really?

Winfrey: Yeah, absolutely - because usually people are honest in the kiss-and-tell sort of way, they're not honest about themselves and their own feelings and saying things about themselves. Why did you write it?

Barry: Well, I didn't write it to write a... I didn't really think I was going to write a... this book. I honestly didn't start off wanting to write a book where I sort of bared my soul or anything. I started writing these anecdotes, and I really enjoyed writing anecdotes about my adventures in the music industry, and I had some friends who were in the publishing business who kept encouraging me to keep going.

As I was on the road, I would write a little chapter about Bette and I would write a little chapter about this and that, and the records and all, and we made a little publishing deal to finish the book. And as I continued to write, they kept asking me to fill in the blanks, and that was a big deal, because I actually was writing this. I actually learned how to work a word processor, I really enjoyed the experience. But I did not intend to really flesh it out like that, but I figured I may as well just try it. And so I went all the way with it. It's the only way I know how to do things, I commit to things, and so I said, okay, I'll do it, and I did it all the way.

I wrote 800 pages within three years. This is... that's not the book that you've got, we edited it down to whatever it is now, and that's the book. So I never really started off really wanting to write something that revealing and that honest, but I didn't know how else to do it.

Winfrey: Also from the book I gathered you never really started off wanting to be what you are now, although, I mean, you'll take it, yeah.

Barry: Although I'll take it.

Winfrey: But you know, the white picket fence and the family and so forth
was your Brooklyn dream.

Barry: That's it. And this was a beautiful accident. But it was not easy. I mean, everybody... when it was happening to me, people would come and say, "You must be having the greatest time, and aren't you thrilled" - no, I wasn't at all.

Winfrey: Really?

Barry: I wasn't. It was the hardest thing I... it was a test, it's like a test, going through it. I mean, you know, you plan your life out and then everything changes. You say, I'm going to go right there and this is exactly how... and it never works out that way at all.

Winfrey: Well, I think one of the most revealing chapters in this book comes around page 180-something, where you're talking about how bananas it is at the top, I think is the chapter. And I think it's important - even for people who are not very famous - to understand that it's a difficult thing to deal with. When you first started to get famous, did you lose sight of who you were?

Barry: Yeah, I guess I did. God, there's so many things going through my head as you say this. There's so much to say about that...

Winfrey: Yeah, I know.

Barry: ... that part of it, you know, because it's not... The pressure of success is possibly the most incredible thing I've ever gone through.

Winfrey: You say it's the most difficult thing, and anybody who rises to the top, you look at people who are rising to the top now and think about their pain and their scars.

Barry: I do. I keep... I feel very empathetic and sympathetic towards the rising stars, because I know what they're going through, I've been there.

And everybody is patting them on the back, you know, and getting them glasses of Perrier, you know, and you... and interviewing them on television, and you begin to think that you really are better than everybody else.

You think you're a little wittier, you think... and you're not. But it's just so addictive, it's... it's like a drug, you know, you begin to start to... you know. Then, the worst thing is when they begin to talk about you: "He's in a bad mood today, don't...." You know, you've been there, you know. And you...

Winfrey: No, I haven't.

Barry: No, really?

Winfrey: Nobody ever says that.

Barry: But you know what the...

Winfrey: No, let me just say that... I say to the audience here, not to... - those of you at home didn't hear this - that Roseann, who is one of our production assistants here, said to me earlier today - and I've been ask... I ask for water all the time, and they go out and they get the tap and try to find an ice cube. But today they brought in Perrier, because they heard that Barry wanted Perrier. And Roseann comes to me this morning - I've been asking for Perrier for two years - and Roseann asks me, "Barry wants it chilled, do you think this is cold enough? Can you feel this?" And so I say, "You're asking me to feel Barry's water?"

Barry: Really, you see, but it's that that keeps you grounded, and it's that that keeps me grounded. Brooklyn and the friends that I keep surrounding myself keeps me grounded, keeps me... I didn't enjoy that other pan, when I sort of began to believe it. lt was very uncomfortable.

Winfrey: Yeah. Don't you think, though, this is one of my theories, and you may or may not agree, that if you have some foundation before this hits you, if you really are... are older, as I am, when this hit, then you already have an idea about who you are and what your purpose is in life. And so...

Barry: Absolutely. Your personality is formed.

Winfrey: Is formed. So you're not defined by all of this that happens to you.

Barry: That's why I feel so sorry for the people that this fame hits at 18 years old. I mean, I don't know how they do it. I don't... well, how they do it, they fall apart, most of them don't make it.

Winfrey: And why is that, Barry, do you think?

Barry: I think it just blows you over. It just blows you over.

Winfrey: And you were blowed over?

Barry: I was blown over. I was... I wasn't blown over as much, I think, because I...

Winfrey: Blowed over, blown over, I'm sorry.

Barry: Blown over. I don't think I was... I think it could have been worse. It didn't last that long. I lost good friends along the way.

Winfrey: You say on page 183: "When I look back on those days, I'm appalled at my behavior. I have to say thanks to people who stayed with me, because they must have seen what I was going through."

There were times, you say, that you... "if things were going wrong onstage, I'd come rushing out, yelling and carrying on like a child in front of ushers or technicians."

Now, at the time you were doing it, did you realize you were behaving that way?

Barry: Yeah, I did. I thought it was... I thought it was proper. I thought that's the way a superstar behaves. Listen, it's really addictive, it's very... because people don't slap you around, they let you do it. You know, I had to slap myself around. Thank God I met my old friends, thank goodness I surrounded myself with people who would tell me the truth.

Winfrey: Really? And how do you do that, though, if your head's up here in the clouds?

Barry: You can... you can do it.

Winfrey: You can do it?

Barry: You have to want to. I mean, I know that. I know you know the superstars too, you know, who just don't want to, they like it.

Winfrey: What made you come down to earth, come back down to earth?

Barry: I heard myself. I heard myself, I saw myself, I realized people were not treating me... were treating me differently. I didn't like what I heard, I didn't like what I saw, and I took some time off, and I stayed in Miami for a while and I thought, I thought about it. And I pulled my... pulled myself out of it.

Winfrey: I think that the ability to pull yourself out of it is a true test of character and is what really growing up is all about.

Barry: I think you're right.

Winfrey: Yeah, did you feel that way at the time?

Barry: I... it was difficult. I think about it... I feel great about it now. Pulling myself out of it was not easy, but I did, but now I feel great about it. I feel great about what I've become.

Winfrey: Do you feel... did you feel, though, at some of those times, when you're performing onstage and people... and you get all of this adoration and adulation, do you think - are they applauding me or are they applauding an image of what they think I am?

Barry: Yeah, it was all of that, it was a double-edged sword for all those years.
I was very uncomfortable onstage, and yet I knew that I... the audiences were loving it, and I loved making the music. I just was uncomfortable with it.

You know, I think the people that really do love that kind of adulation are the people who have gone after it all their life. I read articles on Michael Jackson, you know, and they say he's only happy when he's on the stage. When he's off the stage, he hasn't got the kind of life that he enjoys.

I was always the opposite. I love being offstage, I love playing piano, working with the bands, working with musicians. I always felt a little off-center onstage,
I never...

Winfrey: Really?

Barry: Yeah. So it was... it was a very uncomfortable position that I was in, although I don't... I don't feel that way now. I really feel... I feel good about it now.

Winfrey: When you walk out into an audience and people are screaming and throwing up their bras...

Barry: I never understood it, but I... and I still don't understand it, and I still don't understand it now, but I enjoy watching them enjoy it.

Winfrey: Okay. Barry Manilow performs... no bra throwing, though...

Barry: Please.

Winfrey: When we come back. Back in a moment with Barry.

(Commercial break)

Winfrey: We're back with Barry Manilow, and here's another wonderful song from his new album, "Swing Street."

(Barry sings "Stardust")

Winfrey: Barry Manilow is our special guest today. I was talking earlier, when we introduced Barry to you, about his fans and how devoted they am, how dedicated they are, how they follow him all around. There are people that have been there 97 concerts, and so what is it, what is it that has kept you a fan for many years?

1st audience member: Oprah.

Winfrey: Yes.

1st audience member: It's his music, and the friendships that we've made because of it. I've got friends in England and Scotland and Japan and Australia, and it's just like a big family and it's all due to him, and I thank you for it, Barry.

Winfrey: Okay, that's good. How did you get friends in Australia and England and all this, why? You met at concerts, or you...

1st audience member: At concerts, standing in line for tickets for the book signing or for tickets for concerts. Attending the international fan clubs that they have every other year. Just everything.

Winfrey: How many albums do you have of his?

1st audience member: Every one from every country. And sometimes doubles.

Winfrey: Doubles, too?

1st audience member: Well, you know, you have to have one at sales...

Winfrey: How much money would you say you had spent on Barry?

Barry: Look how she's into the money again.

1st audience member: Oh, God, I'm divorced, and it's...

Barry: Because she won't let go of the money.

Winfrey: No, I'm just asking.

1st audience member: I'm just on my salary, takes it.

Winfrey: You really?

1st audience member: Yeah.

Winfrey: Okay.

1st audience member: But I love it. I wouldn't trade it for... I wouldn't trade it.

Winfrey: I think that's wonderful, if it makes you joyous, I think that's wonderful.
1st audience member: It is, it is, and like I said, Barry, you're the best, thank you for everything.

Winfrey: So do you travel from concert to concert, because there are a lot of people in here who's..

1st audience member: Oh, yeah. Laurie and I are going to L.A. the end of the month, and after these concerts here in Chicago, I'm going to do Toledo, Peoria, Louisville, Columbus. I was going to do Vegas, but I got threatened by my husband.

Winfrey: And so how does your husband feel about your relationship with Barry?

1st audience member: He loves it. He's glad I've got somebody like Barry and the friends because of Barry. And he just loves it, he loves going to the shows, he loves all the friends I bring home for like video parties to watch videos or whatever. He just loves it.

Winfrey: Okay, great. I'm glad, I'm glad. So I'm not trying to harp on the money, because I... I want you to make all the money. Buy this book! I want you to make all the money, I just was curious as to how much people really did it. You got... you proposed to a Barry Manilow song, I heard.

2nd audience member: Right.

Winfrey: Yeah. What song was it?

2nd audience member: "Fools Get Lucky."

Winfrey: Oh. So was it playing, did you plan the song and the music, the candlelight, the dinner? Stand up, tell me all about it, I want to know.

2nd audience member: It was kind of an impromptu thing. I just decided to sing it, because I felt it.

Winfrey: You sang the song.

2nd audience member: Yeah.

3rd audience member: And I cried.

Barry: It's a good song, good song.

Winfrey: That's nice. You cried?

3rd audience member: Oh, yeah.

Winfrey: And so you... I was told by my producers that you all could mark happenings and events in your life by Barry Manilow songs? For instance, when "Mandy" came along, what were you guys doing? Did you know each other then?

2nd audience member: No, no. First Barry Manilow song I ever heard was... I can't even think now.

Winfrey: That's okay.

3rd audience member: First one I ever heard...

Winfrey: It's national television, several million people watching, that's okay.

3rd audience member: For me it was "Daybreak" and I flipped.

Winfrey: Your all-time five favorites, Barry, of your own?

Barry: Hey!

Winfrey: Yes, your personal...

Barry: "Here's That Rainy Day." You want five favorites like... just five favorite songs or...

Winfrey: No, of your own.

Barry: Really, quick, you really want the... you really want an answer? I mean...

Winfrey: Yeah, yeah.

Barry: Give me a little help here, will you? "Even Now," yes, I like "Even Now."

Winfrey: Yes, okay. What about "Could It Be Magic," that?

Barry: Yeah, "Could It Be Magic." Yeah, yeah. I... Listen, they're all my
children, you know, I... they are, you know, they're... I consider them all equal. It's... I'm kidding around about it, but I'm really hard-pressed to tell you one over another. I usually tend to like the ones that I'm... I just created.

Winfrey: Really?

Barry: Yeah, just like... you know.

Winfrey: So from the album "Swing Street." "Swing Street" obviously is a favorite. What are your... your top three favorites on this new album?

Barry: Well, I love this album so much. I mean, I can't get enough of this album, you know. I just... yeah. I mean, every day I have another favorite, you know. I mean, every song comes with a little bit of history for me.

I mean, the duet I did with Diane Schuur and Stan Getz on "Summertime" was really quite an evening. I got to tell you, this was like a major moment in my life, you know, so it stands out from the album, but the whole thing...

Winfrey: When you hear your own music, do you think about what went into making that song, how you first came upon the idea, the lyrics, the recording session? Does it have special memories, or can you just hear it like... I suppose you never can hear it like we hear them?

Barry: No, I guess I can't. Although, you know, I was driving in the car coming here and I heard "This One's For You." And I'm real proud of the music I've made, you know, I'm real proud of the records that I made. And as they come on the air, I say, well, that's a nice-sounding record, you know. And then I think about the history behind it. "This One's For You," you know, has got... all of them have just got this heavy, potent memories for me.


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